Tar Heel Fan

Tuesday, March 21, 2006

Andy Katz Has A Very Short Memory

ESPN.com's Andy Katz has written an article where he asserts that Duke's run of 9 straight Sweet 16 appearances is so impressive that only John Wooden winning 7 straight NCAA titles and 10 in 11 years at UCLA surpasses it. Katz cites the current level of parity in college basketball as the reason why this streak will not likely be matched in the future. And he could be right, except he conveniently forgot to mention that Dean Smith and North Carolina made 13 straight Sweet 16 appearances from 1981 to 1994. In fact UNC maintained the streak by beating the #1 team(Oklahoma) in the country as a #8 seed in 1990 as well as beating a #5 seed(Alabama) in the 1992 NCAA Tournament as a #4 seed. Duke has never faced a seed higher than #8 in the second round during their vaunted streak. Now it could be said that the first four years of the streak were easier since they occurred during the years of the 48 team field which required UNC as a higher seed to only win one game to reach the Sweet Sixteen versus the two a team must win now. Of course as Katz points out Duke has been a #1 seed eight of those nine years and since #16 seeds are now 0-88 versus #1 seeds, we can consider that first game a gimmie. The only thing UNC did in those four years was lose a national title game, win a national title game, lose in the Elite Eight, and lose in the Sweet 16 to Indiana. I think that means on average they won more than two games a year in the tournament during that span. This is classic Mike Krzyzewski worship as practiced by most of the personalities at ESPN. I am not certain how he can, with a straight face, write and post an article lauding Mike Krzyzewski for his streak of Sweet 16 appearances when he is still five years away from surpassing the streak Dean Smith set in the 1980's and early 1990's. Of course Jim Calhoun thinks that UConn reaching the Sweet Sixteen in 9 out of 12 years is pretty swell, but nine straight like Duke is "incredible" Hey Jim, what would think if I told you Dean Smith went to 13 straight Sweet 16's and 15 out of 17 years from 1981-1997. If nine straight is incredible then 13 straight must be downright miraculous. Maybe I should cut Katz some slack since he only started writing about college basketball in the 1990's about the time the UNC streak ended. Of course he also took the time to research what John Wooden did, you would think he would show some respect and gives some credit to Dean Smith for his accomplishment instead of glossing over 13 years of great tournament consistency in an effort to give Mike Krzyzewski another big pat on the back. Copyright © 2006, BCB


  • I think its sad that you really cannot just appreciate what an accomplishment having a run like this is.. Hate Duke becasue they are your rival. Thats respectable!! But you sound like a child if you can't give credit where it is due. I hate Carolina, but I appreciate all that Dean Smith did for the game.. You cry about everything. Yes, Dean did only have to win one game to get to the sweet 16. It is a very big diiference.. Also, if its not an accomplishment then what other #1 seeds have done it? You seem to take such offense that Duke has done it being a high seed, then what other high seeds have done it? Its sad that you would actually be so blinded of accomplishents on the court that you can't appreciate great contributions to the game. Along with your high moral fiber of taking offense to Coach K doing commericals (see Dean Smith gazillion dollar Nike contract to be the pioneer of such a deal ) and Coach K swearing ( see Classy Roy's chair slamming profanity driven tirade on the sideline last Sunday, also every Carolina fan I know that uses the F word and GD in a common sentence.)As fans you are the biggest hypocrites going.. Andy Katz should have written his article on the short memeory of most carolina fans..

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/22/2006 01:17:00 PM  

  • Katz's role in the greater Dook media conspiracy (that includes Seth Davis) is carefully detailed in this journalistic expose: http://kiki1-5.blogspot.com

    Seek the truth and ye shall find ... um ... said truth. That is all.

    By Blogger David, at 3/22/2006 02:29:00 PM  

  • "Yes, Dean did only have to win one game to get to the sweet 16. It is a very big diiference."

    Which was only the case for four years, as I said. And no it is not a big difference because #1 seeds are 88-0 against #16 seeds to it is not as though Duke was challenged in those games.

    "Also, if its not an accomplishment then what other #1 seeds have done it? You seem to take such offense that Duke has done it being a high seed, then what other high seeds have done it?"

    When did I say it was not an accomplishment? My chief complaint was that if nine straight Sweet 16 appearances is an accomplishment then 13 straight most certainly is and Katz should have the insight to at least recognize that fact. I also would like to congratulate you on proving my point my saying that(to my knowledge) no one else has done it but Duke, UNC, and UCLA. Now, getting 8 #1 seeds in 9 years is remarkable but I also think that 13 straight Sweet Sixteens which includes beating a #1 seed, #5 seed, and #6 seed adds a slightly higher degree of difficulty to UNC's streak than what Duke did.

    "Along with your high moral fiber of taking offense to Coach K doing commericals (see Dean Smith gazillion dollar Nike contract to be the pioneer of such a deal ) and Coach K swearing ( see Classy Roy's chair slamming profanity driven tirade on the sideline last Sunday, also every Carolina fan I know that uses the F word and GD in a common sentence.)"

    Point out one case where I have used profanity on this site and I will shut it down right now. You do have a point that Roy can be as animated as Coach K on the sideline, but one thing I did not see from Roy on Sunday was him dropping F-bombs on his players when they committed turnovers in the fashion K did it to Paulus last Thursday night. I also have never written a post where I take issue with Coach K's commercials other than commenting during one of my live game blogs I was annoyed at having seen it three straight times. As for Dean's Nike deal, I doubt K is complaining about Smith breaking the ground for him.

    Just for the record I happen to think Duke's Final Four run of 6 in 8 years including back-to-back titles is far more impressive that either Sweet Sixteen streak and given that Duke had to win nearly as many games as UCLA did to win their titles against much stiffer competition, it is somewhat comparable.

    By Blogger BCB, at 3/22/2006 03:16:00 PM  

  • 13 is an incredible accompishment. And it has been pointed out many of times. And when Dean was still an active Coach people wrote about it all the time . Dean is retired now, and this article was about Duke's accomplishment.. And I did not say you personally used profanity , it was in general to most hypocritical comments coming from Heels from all over.. usually in regards to profanity, referees, commercials etc..

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/22/2006 03:38:00 PM  

  • Fair enough. And while I understand the article is about Duke, I would have expected at least an acknowledgement that UNC had done it. Perhaps Katz decided that mentioning UNC and Duke in the same breath or by comparison would be to vitrolic, I do not know. It just reeks of intellectual dishonesty to talk about a streak of this kind and at least not make mention that Smith had done the same thing. If anything, given the stature of Smith and UNC's program during that time it only bolsters the argument that K is a great coach.

    As for hypocritical fans. Every fan base has them, and I make an effort not to be as such. Though I do enjoy giving Duke a hard time.

    By Blogger BCB, at 3/22/2006 03:52:00 PM  

  • Agreed!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/22/2006 04:07:00 PM  

  • Was that dook fan serious? For one you also have to take into fact the landscapes of college basketball. Dean made the tournament for a long period of time when only the conference tournament champ made the tournament. Dean also innovated most of the things we see in the current state of the game. All fo this while we were losing players to the pros long before it became the norm. K has brought nothing but a huge dook PR machone to the table. Considering their string of #1 seeds and preferential placement in easy brackets he should have this string of tournament wins.

    By Anonymous Matt, at 3/23/2006 11:23:00 AM  

  • The real question is, are you serious? Its so funny to see most of you complain and cry about preferential treatment.. Like I said, I think its great that you hate Duke, I would be ashamed if you didn't . But the fact that you carry on and whine makes me laugh. The thing that once made Carolina and Duke a great rivalry was that it invloved such high level passion and talent level. The fact that you choose to downplay Duke's accomplishments and their place in history show's how far UNC fans have dropped in their knowledge of the game.. Are you really as desperate as the rest of the country to complain about everything Duke does? I thought UNC fans were above that, because God knows, UNC certainly has had the same things said about them. But I guess 16 loses out of the last 20 put you in the ranks of being haters just to hate just like the Pack. Congrats on your new placement. You finally have earned it!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/23/2006 12:05:00 PM  

  • dear anonymous,
    will you just stop already? Carolina-Duke is still a great rivalry, the best in college basketball, because of the high level of passion and talent. There is no "once was" about it.
    Mr. Blog writer here is not downplaying Duke's accomplishments....his underlying argument here is simply that all the teams, be it UNC, UCLA, Duke or anyone else who achieves this same thing should be recognized, and not just one team.
    And Roy might have slammed chairs, but there was no "profanity driven tirade" to speak of. Personally, I'd rather sit behind a coach who slams a chair than a coach who screams expletives at his players so frequently that parents with young children sitting behind the Duke bench have asked to be moved to other seats where their children aren't subjected to such profanity. I suggest you do a little more research before making such claims about UNC coaches, players or fans.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/24/2006 03:21:00 AM  

  • No, I won't stop already. The fact there is always a double standard with most of you is the reason I even bother. I have plenty of knowledge having grown up within the heart of North Carolina basketball thank you, but yet again it was a nice attempt by you to discredit because someone speaks logical truth. Its your hypocracy that makes me laugh. I have no problem with the argument of the initial blogger. Dean had a great run, and if he is offended that Dean was not mentioned then that is worthy of a response. But the rest of you that keep coming up with lame measuring sticks, that is the problem. You cry , whine and carry on like none other. I would be very proud that people compare you with Maryland now. Look how cute, they even took your "DOOK" spelling...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/24/2006 06:54:00 PM  

  • Duke fans can be just as arrogant as UNC fans, and you're showing it here on this blog.

    By Blogger Penny Woods, at 3/25/2006 04:52:00 PM  

  • I have written another article on this debate. I hope this frames the matter a little more clearly.

    By Blogger BCB, at 3/25/2006 10:07:00 PM  

  • if you have no problem with what the blogger said why are you even posting? and logical truth? i beg to differ. talk about a double standard...geez. I have many ties to UNC and many friends that go to Duke and none of them act this way. I would be interested to see where this comparison with Maryland comes from...I live in Chapel Hill and have never heard a thing about it. Seems like you are the one who is doing all the whining and crying. Oh wait, that was JJ after he scored 11 points in the loss against LSU. Maybe he'll write a poem about it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/26/2006 12:29:00 AM  

  • wow, so clever you are!! You take try to take the high road, and then you talk about JJ? And to answer your question, I am posting because I appreciated and respected the point the blogger made. I took exception to his initial argument, and then after he clarified I agreed with him. You should read the chain before you just shoot off. I was neither being arrogant or rude to answer penny. And the second person, I cannot get over your whit. "He should write a poem about it" HAH!!! Your are so quick and sharp. Wow what a slam!! Nice 12 year old comeback. That comment right there was the rational behind my post. There is not one bit of "whining or crying" in any of my posts. I'm not the one who comes up with conspiracy theory's or preferential treatment comments in order to take credit away from 20 year old kids.Thanks for showing up just in time to remind what low lifes most of you are. To the initial blogger, no disrespect. Again, I agree, Dean had some great runs and accomplished a great deal.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/26/2006 01:44:00 AM  

  • Why are you guys so jealous of Duke?????? Why do you take all this time to write about them if you claim you hate them so much??? Its obvious, you guys are just jealous

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/26/2006 03:52:00 PM  

  • For the record,I don't think you guys are jealous. You certainly have one of the best programs going, my posts have just been concentrated on the fact that UNC fans should be above the stupid comments amd just hate because they are Duke's rival.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/26/2006 07:03:00 PM  

  • I wrote about them in this case because someone else wrote about them.

    By Blogger BCB, at 3/26/2006 07:46:00 PM  

  • Hey, I wasn't the first nor will I be the last person to critique JJ's poetic endeavors. Perhaps you should reread your posts...I'm also not the only one who sees multiple instances of said whining and crying in your posts. Never have I mentioned anything conspiracy theories or preferential treatment. I was simply making a reference to Redick's consistently poor performance in post-season play. I can acknowledge that he is a great basketball player, but no team can afford to rely on one or two players to score 2/3 or 3/4 of their points on any given night. Thats no conspiracy theory or preferential treatment remark, its just plain common sense. With many of your remarks, you have no room to call anyone posting here a lowlife, etc. Take a look in the mirror. And to the poster suggesting jealousy of Duke? What is there to be jealous of? I chose not to go to school there for a reason, and I'm not the only one who feels that way.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/26/2006 11:34:00 PM  

  • I didn't say you were jealous. I'm the one that said you weren't. Try and keep up. And I agree. You can't play 2 on 5 in the tournament and expect to win. JJ did not have a great game without a doubt. But ever good look he got he knocked down. When you have suppoting players they don't look to shoot loike Melchionni, Dockery, Paulus, Nelson, you are forced to take poor shots. Somebody has to shoot. He was a fresman when they lost to Kansas. You can't really compare the games. he did have some good looks against UCONN and missed. But that was the Final Four, and UCONN was the afvorite. It hardly could be considered a chocke.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3/27/2006 09:34:00 AM  

  • Even though I have made hay about Redick's performance on the blog here for entertainment purposes, I do understand that it is not entirely a choke. He was well defended and that was to LSU's credit. The issue I have with Redick's performance is how it stacks up against the hype and billing the media has given him. He is a great shooter and it always seemed to me that he could nail a shot when he needed to(see the ACC title game) You are correct in stating that you cannot play 2 on 5. David Glenn pointed out that the rest of the team was non-existent and in fact I do not even remember seeing Melch with the ball vs LSU. Redick is a great scorer, but that scoring can only come within the context of the offense and with the assistance of his teammates whether it be screens set or them scoring points to put pressure on the defense and release Redick from double teams. Take for example UNC last season. Aside from Jackie Manuel who was a defensive specialist, UNC had four weapons on the floor at all times. If a team double teamed Sean May he would kick out to McCants. Felton could drive the lane and either hit shots or kick it out for open shots. Redick did not have the benefit of a good point guard and other players who were a threat to shoot. So when Redick got the ball he got the full brunt of the defensive pressure. Another part of Redick's problem is that he is more limited than people realize. He is not able to create his shot as well as others, he tends to make bad passing decisions when put under pressure, and while I do not think he is one dimensional, he is not as versatile as someone like Adam Morrison. And while this is a not a "Duke-Ref" comment, it is notable that in the ACC refs tends to call games on a tighter basis where against LSU they let them play and Redick does not do well when he is being hand checked. Redick only went to the FT line once and that is very telling because he usually goes more than that. So I think Redick did choke in the sense he did not live up to the expectations and hype the media placed on him, but is that really his fault? No, but at the same time, as the all time leading scorer in ACC history you would think that he would have at least one or two tournament games where he did not shoot as badly as he has no matter who he was facing.

    By Blogger BCB, at 3/27/2006 09:56:00 AM  

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